This post, however, only shows that it’s possible to have high taxes and a strong economy, with happiness at work. But doesn’t show this is any better than lower taxes. Alexander only speculates that lower taxes would lead to more work and decreased happiness. I don’t think this is true, and I don’t think for one reason I read here: people would rather work less, given that option (cult of overwork again).

So, I do think that lower taxes would let me work less and live by the same standards and, thus, be happier! James’ shows it clearly when he asks: if this leads to happiness, why not tax 100% on everyone?

I live in Brazil, as Alvaro does, and I feel the heavy burden of taxes everyday. When I get my salary, I get about 20% less, since I am source taxed (IRS and compulsory retirement plan). Then I get my money, and will pay my bills. About 40% of their value is tax. And it’s not hard to see the snowball effect this has: higher taxes lead to higher prices which lead to a high cost to do anything. Logistics, workforce, living, everything is expensive in Brazil. And this hinders economic growth and generates unemployment and poverty.

The bottom line is: ok, we can have taxes, for some government service is necessary. In extremis, the government must help the extremely poor. But the more taxes, the worse for people in general.

Where have you read that Denmark is lowering taxes? Do you live in Denmark as I do? They have something called a “tax stop” which just means the goverment is not going to increase taxes, that’s all. There are no plans to lower taxes. If there is a socialist party elected (which they are gaining in popularity here, along with a Danish People’s Party which likes taxes to help the older generation) the “tax stop” will most likely be removed and taxes will be increased, not decreased.

Once you give government money from taxes, the government becomes addicted to the money/income and rarely, if ever wants to “cut programs” which become the manna of politicians (“Look what I am doing for you…”) that have been newly created by this tax money which they would have to cut if the taxes were reduced. So, in Scandinavia, the tax burden will most likely continue to rise and the exodus to lower tax havens will continue. You can’t make people work 8 months out of 12 for the government without many thinking they are being cheated and exploited.

You have to consider the historical parallels of time. Macedonia does not have the development and infrastructure that Denmark currently has partly due to the its recent emergence for the former Soviet Bloc (rememeber – it was only 20+ years ago that the Soviet grip fell (- and Tito in the former Yugoslavia which ruled Macedonia).

Let’s ask all the people in “Little Denmark” – London, UK – who are voting with their feet and leaving their “happy” land that educated them. They are EU citizens and have voted (and are voting) to work ‘happier’ in the UK, where the tax on upper earners is much, much less. Sustainable? Not for long… http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/05/business/labor.php

What you think who is happier? Dannish with 60% tax and 25% VAT or Macedonians with 10% tax and 18/5% VAT?

Take the carrot away and many jobs will end up just, well, undone.

Tell me Alex, why stop at 60%? I live in Denmark where they have 60% for most earners and for everyone there is a 25% VAT tax on EVERYTHING – and lets not forget the automobile taxes are some of the highest, if not THE highest on earth, thereby punishing the happy country people who don’t live in the transportation-dense cities. Or, should everyone live in the cities? Hmmm.

1. Denmark: 5.5 mil people.
Unimplyment rate – 3.5%
GDP Growth: 1.7%
“The Danish taxation system is progressive. This means that the last Danish krone you earn is taxed at a higher rate than the first krone earned” (Source http://www.skm.dk/foreign/english/taxindenmark2007)
The result: GDP (PPP): $37,400, plus all the benefits for everyone Alex explained.

2. Brasil: 190 mil people.
Unimplyment rate – 10-11%
GDP Growth: 4.9%
Taxes: can’t find info.
The result: GDP (PPP): $9,700 (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/br.html#Econ)

3. Macedonia: 2.2 mil people.
Unimplyment rate – 10-11%
GDP Growth: 35%
Taxes: 10% flat rate
The result: GDP (PPP): $8,400

Can you see that the lower the taxes the lower the GDP and emplyment rate?

My point is this:
I wont mid the government to take me 40-60% of my income if they provide good schools for my kids, good health care for me and my family and made conditions everyone arround i know to be employed.

Think again Alvaro.

Basically I make more money now than ever before in my life, yet I take home less money than I did when I was working in the states years ago.

I have the opportunity to get free health care, but I have to wait almost an eternity to get it.

There are lots of homeless people here. Just take a walk down the main Stroget street in Copenhagen. you will see them.

Who gets all the money? The old people (even if you never worked a day in yoru life, you get full retirement) and the unemployed.

It is a vicious cycle – the population is getting older and therefore, the voting rolls are filled with the elderly – and the politicians keep making more and more promises to the seniors and the seniors only vote (it’s a human thing) where they see the money come in. Sadly, all the political ads you see on the streets (billboards) are pandering to the seniors.

We just had a major riot about a month ago, where we couldn’t leave our house. I call them the “child riots” as these children forcibly, years ago, took over a building. The owner wanted it back and asked for help from the governement for her property back. the kids went wild, and this “conservative” governement (which in the states would be more liberal than even Ralph Naders wettest dream) didn’t do much until they finally had to call in police from all over the country and even Sweden to help stop the kids from destroying the street. And these “kids” are the most coddled and protected on earth. Some of the parents here couldn’t believe their children were goinng to jail for two weeks (“I mean, officer, he only tried to throw a small stone at the police officer).

If you want some good stuff on the opposite of the nirvana which you speak (and which I am, ahem, living), maybe you should come and live here in copenhagen and work 8 months out of the year for the govenement. Have fun. I think I might just stop working and go on unemployment (if I, as a foreigner, am allowed). See, I am a foreginer here, with the right to work, but I can’t vote here, and the only way that would happen is if I give up my US citizenship (they don’t recognize dula citizenship), which is not going to happen . I would then have my free time and still get paid. Perfect world.

I liked this article.

http://haxor.dk/articles/dksucks.html

BTW – I have voted Democratic in every election I have ever participated, before I moved to the good old world, as the Republican party scares the living crap out of me in the USA ( the religious ties and all that other crap).

Why was Denmark rated the most happy? I think it is like a drug or an addiction and they are all sleep walking – Jim Jones got everyone to drink the coolaid and lots of people here just pay these enormous taxes without really questioning (“well, we have always paid this tax, etc”).

Anyway, enough of my ranting. There is no perfect society, but before you go on a line of tilting the tax in favor of the “society” remember, from the outside it all looks great, but when you live here, when you live it, there is a difference.

I think trying to come up with a specific percentage, eg. is answering the wrong question. The question should be, how much money do we need? What do we consider to be important, and how do we do it/pay for it? (understanding that some of it will surely be wasted, and the more that’s available the more that’s likely to be wasted).

There are a number of comments above from people living under more socialist governments than the U.S, where their problem is excessive interference. I’d argue that in the U.S we have a different problem, which is a sustained political movement which pushes people towards denying their obligations to society as a whole, and to resent any form of taxation.

You know what? 60% is probably too much (but see U.S. historical marginal tax rates). But this isn’t merely a question of you vs. the gov’t, which leads you down the road to the black-and-white question “how much are they taking from me“? Intertwined with that is the question of your part in the society. Is it good to have 10% rates if there are more homeless people on the streets? What if you knew that if you paid an extra 10% there’d be comprehensive health care, or better schools, not necessarily better schools for you or your kids, but for someone elses kids? Is that worth it? Is it worth 5%? Is it worth 10% if you know that the schools will get better but half of it will be wasted?

For my part I’d rather pay for a healthier society, mindful of the waste in gov’t, but noticing that the politicians that complain the loudest about government taxation have lately been the ones wasting the most.

Questions –
What country are you writing from? I’m responding to your argument as if you’rein the U.S, as I am, reflexive, I know, but it does sound like common republican arguments.

What tax rate are you paying now?

Do you consider it to be fair? What rate would you consider to be fair?

I’d like your response to that. What level is enough? Should the happy working people actually work…for, well, 10% of their income?